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we have become prisoners of our fears

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and desires

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but to what end is the entire meaning of

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modern life to simply seek pleasure and

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avoid pain

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is this enough to live in our past

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there were hidden esoteric paths that

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guided the wise through the matrix of

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control

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but these ancient learnings have become

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obscured by pseudo-transcendent

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materialism

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and false prophets that's from a movie

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by today's guest robert bonomo

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who has a lot to say not only about

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the situation we find ourselves in

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but how to transcend it stick around i

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welcome to skeptica where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics i'm your host alex sakaris

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and today i welcome back my dharma

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brother robert bonomo to skeptical

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you know we were just chatting a minute

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ago i feel like i've known robert

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i have known him for a long time it

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seems even longer and it seems like

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i've had him on the show a bunch of

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times but i really haven't i've only had

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him on the show once

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but i've listened to a ton of his

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interviews he's out there on a lot of

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the

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listen to and are part of this community

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and he's always cranking out some of

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these

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incredible new films of his his latest

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i have up on the screen twilight

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of the archons a deep dive

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into the manipulation of money and

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consciousness

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by the powers that control our daily

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lives

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this is a good one really really great

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film

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and you can watch it for free

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on youtube how you gonna beat that deal

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robert uh is can be found at

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cactusland.com where if you go there and

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i'm scrolling through now you can see in

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some of his

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novelist

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he's also a university lecturer

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and he's a blogger and is just

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really really really an interesting

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creative guy

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but also has this very grounded

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background

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in kind of real world stuff we're just

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talking about a minute ago

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you know mba from boston university very

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successful at internet marketing in a

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former life

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so he he i think that's why i say

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he's my dharma brother because i get him

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on so many levels and it's almost like

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this free flow

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of kind of exchange and hopefully we'll

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have that today right robert yeah

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so i think it's true because we have

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somewhat similar

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backgrounds and when we look at for

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things like

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artificial intelligence one side of me

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said yeah you know the archons but the

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other side is like

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wow i could make so much money with this

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stuff you know what i think it's like

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exactly

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wanna

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we're gonna get there really soon uh i

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don't necessarily want to jump there

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right from the beginning because

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what i thought we would do is you don't

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have a trailer per se on the movie and

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there's no reason to have a trailer you

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can go watch it on youtube

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on the youtube channel i made a real

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short one

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but it's it's it's about uh 40 seconds

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but

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it's it doesn't really say much music

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and images just music and images so it's

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better

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it's not really a spoken trailer let me

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play a clip

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from his this latest movie twilight of

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the archons which you can watch

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on youtube for free and you'll

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immediately see why

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you might want to go take a look at this

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thing

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we have become prisoners of our fears

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and desires

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but to what end is the entire meaning of

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modern life to simply seek pleasure and

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avoid pain

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is this enough to live in our past

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there were hidden esoteric paths that

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guided the wise through the matrix of

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control

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but these ancient learnings have become

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obscured by pseudo transcendent

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materialism

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so robert there i've shared a short clip

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there i hope everyone can get a sense

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for what the movie's about

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tell us more particularly before we

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launch off into

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a million uh inside baseball deep dives

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which we're bound to do

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tell folks a little bit about this

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particular film

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how and why you put it together when you

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put it together it seems incredibly

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relevant it seems

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very immediate but i'm sure you've had

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to work on it for a while which makes it

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even kind of more interesting tell us

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about the film

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yeah i started this film um in 2018

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as soon as i finished uh the 21 faces of

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god but

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the initial idea had come in about 2016.

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so i've been playing around with this

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idea a long time

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so in 2018 and it takes me a couple

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years because i collect

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pieces of things and so once i have

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enough stuff

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collected then i begin to lay it out so

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i started laying it out

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pre-coronavirus and then

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the whole thing when the world just kind

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of blew up i had to start again

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so i almost didn't finish it i almost

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didn't finish it

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i would say the the kernel the real

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essence of this film

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is do you remember i used that quote

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from joseph campbell about

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time there's a lot of joseph campbell in

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here and

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and we're going to talk about that so

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tell me that particular joseph campbell

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clip

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because i have some other ones i was

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going to pull up as well

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it was one i watched that as a kid i was

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about 20 maybe 23

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24 something like this and i remember

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watching that thing about

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time and how it's he talks about it's

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it's a condescension of the infinite to

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the mind of man and that's what we see

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as god

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and that drove me insane i never

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understood what he was talking about

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what do you think now today that's still

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very very deep

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and you might have to say that again and

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break it down

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what is your understanding of that now

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a condensation condensing down

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the infinite ascension a condescension

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did he mean as a condescension

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there's kind of dual meaning there right

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it's condescending

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but also a a concentration right or

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am i wrong in that would that not be a

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fair uh dual mode i think he really

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meant it as a

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it's it's condescending on the on the

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part of the infinite to the mind of man

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and that's what we see as god

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and do you and of course we all know his

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famous bliss quote right

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yes you have that in the film as well so

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so but tell tell folks what the what the

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bliss quote is i want to try and be as

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uh non-inside baseball to start out here

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uh but but first go back to the

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to the god thing if you if any of the

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folks here have watched the 21 faces of

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god they'll notice at the end

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there's a little bit of it becomes a

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little you can you can

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taste and smell it because i'm starting

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to smell

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this vidante culture that's really

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starting to interest me

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and i start reading the upanishads and

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then

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i get into ramakrishna a little bit

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and something happens i'm reading the

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english translation of the gospel of

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ramakrishna and it says edited by joseph

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campbell

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and i said you son of a gun now i

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know what you meant do you know now i'm

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not sure many people know this

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you're familiar with saatchi ananda no

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um remind me consciousness

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yes yes right it's one of the

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fundamentals of vedic culture really

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he's bliss quote he's he didn't know i'm

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not saying he stole it but he that's

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that's it's it's being when you when you

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know you're being you have bliss and if

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you look at the

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one i use of campbell talking about

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bliss he goes when you're really

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in it that's when you find your bliss

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campbell was was

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all invaded

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you see what i mean he was a non-dual

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advisor that's what he was that was his

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thing

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and i didn't understand it when i was

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young and when i finally got it

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i was like ah you son of a gun i know

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what you were up to

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do you see what i mean oh it's very it's

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very much a part of the film

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and it's it's it's wonderful and you

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know

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okay i just kind of i feel like i'm

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holding back holding back

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so now we're going to kind of launch

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into this in

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in on these so many different levels

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that we're kind of playing around with

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and talking about so the first thing

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that i'd say

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about joseph campbell and the quote

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about bliss

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from a business guy from an bu mba guy

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to me that is the most uh misunderstood

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quote in the world because where i see

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it

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you love and the money will follow

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and they think that's what he's saying

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and do what you love and the money will

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follow is [\h__\h]

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money doesn't work like that money

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doesn't follow

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your bliss bliss follows your bliss

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if you seek bliss your best hope is to

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find bliss

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but it isn't to find more material [\h__\h]

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that you want um but campbell

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sometimes isn't totally clear on that

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it's sometimes he he he does seem to

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straddle

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into this uh a place where we all want

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to go

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called backdoor materialism where we

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want to say these

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ideas that work on a spiritual non-dual

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level

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might also work in the real world too

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and i don't i don't know that the

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evidence is

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there for that and then i'd i'd sh i'd

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shoot out one more little

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easter bunny on joseph campbell

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uh the question here

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what propels joseph campbell

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into our culture what is the work that

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really propels him into

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our culture oh the bill moyers interview

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exactly

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00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:39,040
bill moyers who who is one

284
00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:42,560
of the uh co-conspirators deeply

285
00:10:48,230 --> 00:10:45,760
entwined in the coup that

286
00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:48,240
most people point to as being a major

287
00:10:53,430 --> 00:10:50,160
turning point in american history

288
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:53,440
and that's the assassination of jfk

289
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:57,279
so by these fourth reich

290
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:00,880
nazi you know alan dulles cia

291
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:03,440
project paperclip well a lot of people

292
00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:04,480
forget

293
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:06,480
do you remember who bill moyers was in

294
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:07,519
that

295
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:10,720
right he was lyndon johnson's press

296
00:11:15,030 --> 00:11:12,720
secretary vice president right

297
00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:15,040
right there's a there's a picture of

298
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:16,959
bill moyers when the plane lands

299
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:19,920
in dc and johnson gets off the plane now

300
00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:21,200
president

301
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:22,880
because remember he johnson took the

302
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:24,399
oath on the plane

303
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:26,320
there's a very you see moyers waiting

304
00:11:30,150 --> 00:11:28,000
for him very young bill moyers he goes

305
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:30,160
up and shakes his hand he was the guy

306
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:31,440
who took the bubble top

307
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:34,800
off the limo he was the guy who

308
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,519
and you know the jfk thing it's like

309
00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:39,279
ancient history for

310
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:40,959
most people because they're just not of

311
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:42,800
that age but it's just

312
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:44,880
so many people will point to like with

313
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:47,040
this latest

314
00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:50,240
kind of round of uh you know

315
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:53,839
recapturing the castle that happened and

316
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:56,480
not to say that trump wasn't part of the

317
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,360
same

318
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:59,279
gang just a different faction anyway

319
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,880
because we won't get into all that

320
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:03,040
but in this latest round of just kind of

321
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:04,320
absurdity

322
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:07,360
it it directly traces back to

323
00:12:12,069 --> 00:12:10,639
the jfk coup and not that jfk was

324
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:12,079
perfect either but it's just

325
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:13,760
unraveling history in a way that most

326
00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:15,839
people don't want to do and what i think

327
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:17,680
is interesting about it is so there's

328
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:19,120
two ways of looking

329
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:21,680
at bill moyer right bill moyer is

330
00:12:25,829 --> 00:12:22,480
fantastic

331
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:25,839
i love bill moyer on pbs but what does

332
00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:26,959
he do

333
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:30,880
life

334
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:32,880
what is he because anyone who was

335
00:12:38,110 --> 00:12:34,959
involved at that level

336
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:38,120
with johnson if they didn't know it

337
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:41,360
beforehand before the shooting they knew

338
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:41,760
it

339
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:44,959
soon after right because the their plot

340
00:12:50,069 --> 00:12:46,240
to cover this up

341
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:50,079
is so transparently idiotically

342
00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:54,320
just stupid that he had to know

343
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:56,399
and then what did he do with that did he

344
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,320
ever speak out about it

345
00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:00,480
did he you know it's like dan rather you

346
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:02,000
know it's like i've watched the

347
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:03,440
subreddit film and the head

348
00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:06,399
goes down you know it's like lie upon

349
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:07,040
lie

350
00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:09,360
that was spread throughout the the media

351
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:10,959
and these guys perpetuated

352
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:13,600
i don't want to get off on the jfk thing

353
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:14,800
i want to get off

354
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:18,560
on the joseph campbell thing

355
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:21,680
in terms of how do you be

356
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:22,959
[Music]

357
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:25,920
in this world and not of this world how

358
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:26,720
do you be

359
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:29,440
the mystic that joseph campbell is and

360
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:31,040
how do you at the same time be

361
00:13:37,269 --> 00:13:34,560
a best-selling author in pbs uh

362
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:37,279
celebrity you know what i mean i i think

363
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:37,680
that

364
00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:41,040
is the bu mba

365
00:13:44,710 --> 00:13:42,480
hey i could make a [\h__\h] a lot of money

366
00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:44,720
in ai uh kind of

367
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:48,000
thing that that i think is is also

368
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:50,480
and then i'm gonna shut up but i think

369
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:51,600
there is that

370
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:55,519
tension in your movie and your movie is

371
00:13:59,829 --> 00:13:59,120
beautifully done but you don't fall for

372
00:14:03,110 --> 00:13:59,839
the kind of

373
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:03,120
sucker kind of one way or another

374
00:14:06,550 --> 00:14:05,680
because the the moyer connection i think

375
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,560
is um

376
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:08,160
it's interesting to look at it that way

377
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:10,000
bill where's a complex guy

378
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:12,240
a very complex guy and so is campbell

379
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:14,000
campbell was not a simple

380
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:17,040
guy very interesting though remember

381
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:20,320
once campbell died the wolves came after

382
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:21,680
him

383
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:28,079
with no just by hearsay nothing the guy

384
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:30,240
had written and spoken

385
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:32,399
i mean unbelievable amount of video with

386
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:33,839
him never said anything

387
00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:35,600
but oh in private he said this and

388
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,600
privately said that and the second thing

389
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,920
is they attacked his credentials

390
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:41,839
because he never had a phd so he never

391
00:14:45,110 --> 00:14:43,199
finished the phd

392
00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:45,120
so the sanskrit collars and scholars

393
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:47,120
came after him

394
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:51,040
if you look if you academics hated him

395
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:53,440
because he became a superstar and he

396
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:55,920
didn't he never got the phd he was not a

397
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:57,279
full professor

398
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:58,720
and he i don't think he wrote a lot of

399
00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:00,399
academic papers

400
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,440
he wrote books so he was a little bit

401
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:05,600
different he followed his own

402
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:09,120
path and um so yeah

403
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:10,800
campbell was not somebody that a lot of

404
00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:13,199
people like in academia

405
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:15,360
and and that gets even deeper right i

406
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:16,560
mean first to

407
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:18,959
address the anti-semite thing uh

408
00:15:23,790 --> 00:15:20,000
straight on

409
00:15:27,069 --> 00:15:23,800
i am so anti-semite i mean i just

410
00:15:30,430 --> 00:15:27,079
unapologetically i'm anti-christian

411
00:15:33,509 --> 00:15:30,440
unapologetically i'm anti-islam

412
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,519
unapologetically religion is

413
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:36,000
a great mind control game that folds

414
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:38,160
into this social engineering project

415
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:40,959
in a way that if we don't address it

416
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:41,600
straight

417
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:44,639
on then we have no chance

418
00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:47,839
so all these religions are just

419
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:50,480
out in the open about promoting these

420
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:52,160
cultish practices

421
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:55,839
that seek disintermediation between

422
00:16:02,629 --> 00:15:59,519
you and god for lack of a better term

423
00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:02,639
so i think it's really easy to read

424
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:05,680
into what joseph campbell is saying as

425
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,399
being

426
00:16:10,150 --> 00:16:08,560
anti-semitic in the same way that you

427
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:10,160
could read into what he's saying as

428
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:11,519
being anti-christian

429
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:14,000
because you can he's kind of calling for

430
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:15,199
a larger

431
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,440
christianity that that quote-unquote

432
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,600
christians would say you know what would

433
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:23,279
just kind of react against

434
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:26,079
i can't you're kind of very open to the

435
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:27,199
gnostic vibe

436
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:28,800
you know whenever i say christ

437
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:31,920
consciousness to someone who's christian

438
00:16:34,949 --> 00:16:34,160
they just tighten up like oh you're

439
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,959
going to try and

440
00:16:38,069 --> 00:16:36,959
pass some kind of gnostic stuff and i

441
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:38,079
know that's bad

442
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:41,040
they're just programmed uh kind of in

443
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:42,480
this robotic way

444
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:45,040
and i i just i don't know why we would

445
00:16:51,030 --> 00:16:47,839
want to give judaism some kind of past

446
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:51,040
i mean it's a wonderful social uh

447
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:54,720
tradition it's a frick they're values i

448
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:55,920
mean if you're gonna it's but kind of

449
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,399
like mormonism too mormonism works

450
00:17:03,189 --> 00:17:01,040
incredibly well too it doesn't mean that

451
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:03,199
it doesn't have cultish origins

452
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:07,039
so i i i think that's on one hand

453
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:09,039
kind of that and then the academia thing

454
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:10,480
is a complete joke

455
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:14,480
i mean all of academia is built on

456
00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:18,000
this falsified idea that you

457
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:21,520
and i you cover beautifully in the film

458
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:23,199
that that there's try to sell you the

459
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:25,280
consciousness is an illusion

460
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:26,640
and they're doing it because they want

461
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:28,559
to sell you stuff and they don't want

462
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,360
you to

463
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:31,919
get this expanded view of who you are

464
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:34,080
and that's what their pushback

465
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:36,160
on joseph campbell so let's push back on

466
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:37,840
both sides let's push back

467
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:39,440
on the religious side and at the same

468
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:42,000
time we'll push back on the scientific

469
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:45,200
side disguised as this

470
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:47,600
social sciences academia because i mean

471
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:48,240
they are just

472
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:50,960
all everyone in the the social sciences

473
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:52,960
are just water boys for the hard science

474
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:54,880
i mean they just follow like lap dogs

475
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:59,350
and i i just wanted to remember that

476
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:01,120
quote i used from max plank

477
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:03,600
that it's brilliant he said you can't

478
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:04,559
get behind

479
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,960
consciousness it's so simple

480
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:11,120
but when you really think about it he

481
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:13,600
said if you can't you can't get behind

482
00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:14,640
it so

483
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,440
from a scientific point of view that's

484
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:19,520
very profound

485
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:21,760
you can't how can you how can you look

486
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:23,120
at it

487
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:26,480
i mean he clearly states that so if you

488
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:28,320
can't get behind it

489
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:31,200
how can you ever escape it you know you

490
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,520
can't do science without without

491
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:35,200
thinking about that and if you don't

492
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:38,480
think about it what are you really doing

493
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:40,240
okay so there's a whole bunch of

494
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:42,080
different points we could jump

495
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:45,360
to and we could jump to the

496
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:48,400
technology part of this which

497
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:51,120
you you do a beautiful job of covering

498
00:18:56,310 --> 00:18:52,160
and our

499
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:56,320
google netflix kind of uh

500
00:19:02,630 --> 00:18:59,440
uh what would we call it netflix yes

501
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:02,640
you said gospel google netflix it's true

502
00:19:07,029 --> 00:19:06,000
though so talk about that talk about the

503
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:07,039
gospel of

504
00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:09,440
google and netflix and how they seem to

505
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:10,600
be kind of

506
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:14,320
overtly prepping us for

507
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:17,440
what's coming down the road

508
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:20,720
yeah i use i use a clip of ex machina

509
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:23,760
um and but if you watch

510
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:26,799
i mean i i i to name the series but

511
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,200
there's so many in the series

512
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:31,520
but i have gotten the sensation in the

513
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:32,720
last 10 years that there's

514
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:35,440
a lot of good television being made from

515
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:36,799
a technical point of view

516
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:39,039
excellent writing good acting tv has

517
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:41,360
become almost like cinema

518
00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:44,720
but the underlying message of all of

519
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:45,679
this

520
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:49,360
is pure materialism absolutely pure

521
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:50,320
materialism that's

522
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:53,440
all you have there is no

523
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:57,200
transcendent message in anything

524
00:20:02,870 --> 00:20:00,240
that they that they produce so

525
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:02,880
your values and goals as far as for

526
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:03,360
example

527
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,400
social justice overt

528
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:09,200
ethics this is the value of life but

529
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:09,679
there is

530
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,480
nothing more absolutely nothing more and

531
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:14,640
that is something

532
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:16,240
that i think is extremely important

533
00:20:19,029 --> 00:20:17,600
because it's completely taken over our

534
00:20:22,230 --> 00:20:19,039
culture

535
00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:22,240
that really is the paradigm well

536
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:23,919
i i want to explore that a little bit

537
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:25,679
further because i don't know

538
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:28,960
that they're not offering

539
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:31,919
a transcendence and i think you say this

540
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:32,799
in the film

541
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,840
there really suggesting that there's a

542
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:37,840
different kind of transcendence that we

543
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:39,360
need to be

544
00:20:44,310 --> 00:20:42,400
kind of ready for do you want to kind of

545
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:44,320
speak to that because i think that you

546
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:46,080
do

547
00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:50,000
fundamental question is

548
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:52,640
is consciousness of the machine

549
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:55,120
something that we need to

550
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:58,240
fully consider and fully embrace and is

551
00:21:03,510 --> 00:20:58,640
that

552
00:21:06,070 --> 00:21:03,520
ultimately our transcendence yeah

553
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:06,080
and i think i dance around it a little

554
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:07,039
bit when i say

555
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:09,679
it's not at all clear it's not at all

556
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:10,960
clear that

557
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:14,400
machine could be conscious

558
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:16,640
and i can explain that why i danced

559
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:19,360
around that a little bit

560
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,039
this is the balance i actually

561
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:22,880
appreciated in the film because

562
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:24,960
anyone who uh you know we kind of get

563
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,880
stuck in our little echo chamber too

564
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,640
and we all start saying the same thing

565
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:30,480
people are like oh

566
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:34,240
a i bad neural link elon musk

567
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:37,200
bad you know and it's like you know what

568
00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:38,880
if

569
00:21:46,149 --> 00:21:42,480
of the things

570
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:46,159
of the google netflix gospel that rings

571
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:47,679
true to all of us

572
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:49,760
is that unless you're a ludite stick

573
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:50,880
your head in the ground

574
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:53,840
you know ride your horse and buggy

575
00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:56,799
there's a certain inevitability of this

576
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:00,159
that you want to say i hope somebody is

577
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:04,320
mining store and is getting us ready

578
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:08,400
for this future and you know hats off to

579
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:11,360
ex machina for you know kind of allowing

580
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,480
us to

581
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:14,559
explore these topics so what do you

582
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:16,799
think about that

583
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:19,360
i i'm completely convinced that i don't

584
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:20,960
put any sort of moral

585
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,720
judgment on ai and on technology

586
00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:26,720
it's absolutely inevitable this is

587
00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:28,400
something that is happening

588
00:22:31,830 --> 00:22:30,320
just like the printing press happened

589
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:31,840
like the internet happened

590
00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:34,400
etc etc what do they call it the fourth

591
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:36,240
industrial revolution

592
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:38,880
this is happening and alex you and i i

593
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:39,760
think realize

594
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:42,240
it's not like it's gonna happen it has

595
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:43,039
happened

596
00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:45,440
we're in the middle explain that a

597
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:46,080
little bit

598
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:47,440
how do you know we're in the middle of

599
00:22:53,909 --> 00:22:50,720
that give people concrete examples

600
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:53,919
this is just a stupid example from 2017

601
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:55,039
i'm sure that you've

602
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:56,080
you remember that article in the

603
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,880
guardian about how the ai can tell

604
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,320
if you're gay or you're straight with

605
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:02,400
five pictures of your face

606
00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:05,679
right now remember 2017

607
00:23:08,950 --> 00:23:08,240
in today's terms is like a hundred years

608
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:08,960
ago

609
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:11,440
that's five the research the data was

610
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:13,440
probably from five years ago

611
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:16,720
five pictures five pictures and they can

612
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:18,080
tell if you're gay or straight and like

613
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,679
i tell people who cares

614
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:21,840
but what about five pictures you you

615
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:23,200
have depression

616
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:25,840
you have deviant behavior right they

617
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:26,880
have that today

618
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:30,159
today give me f for example alex think

619
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:30,880
foxconn

620
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:36,070
now they have a million employees how

621
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:37,840
many employees have they ever had

622
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:39,919
well it must be 10 million they have 10

623
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:42,000
million pictures of people

624
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:45,840
this guy stole here all the thieves

625
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:47,440
here are the depressed ones the ones

626
00:23:50,549 --> 00:23:49,039
that missed work here are the ones that

627
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:50,559
were sexual deviants you don't think

628
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:51,919
they have this data now

629
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,200
explain who foxconn is uh

630
00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:57,360
foxconn does all the manufacturing for

631
00:24:02,950 --> 00:24:00,000
apple i think they'll offer dell hp

632
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,960
the largest company in the world by

633
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,640
employees

634
00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:07,120
that's not a military just so people

635
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:09,279
kind of refresh their memories

636
00:24:15,669 --> 00:24:12,320
when you see those pictures of

637
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:15,679
these orwellian

638
00:24:22,390 --> 00:24:18,960
orwellian factories in uh

639
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,400
in china with the nets on the side

640
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:24,559
to kind of catch the bodies of people

641
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:25,919
who hurl themselves

642
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:28,720
off of it because they just can't face

643
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:29,919
an existence

644
00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:33,120
of this future this dark

645
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,520
dystopian future that is their life with

646
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:37,440
their social credits and they just

647
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:40,480
leap on the other side that is

648
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,600
foxconn that is who you're talking about

649
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:45,840
right

650
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:48,000
exactly and remember i taught in china

651
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:49,200
so i lived in china

652
00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:51,360
i met people who worked at foxconn

653
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:53,120
chinese universities if you're a chinese

654
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:54,240
university the kids

655
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:56,159
all the kids must live in the dormitory

656
00:25:00,950 --> 00:24:57,520
and they live in dorms about

657
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:00,960
seven boys per room and like nine girls

658
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:02,880
so for them to go even from a university

659
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,960
to a foxconn dormitory remember in

660
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,720
boxing you live in the dormitory

661
00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:08,720
you sign like a i think it's a 12-month

662
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:11,039
contract you go year to year

663
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:13,600
and you know your contract is for five

664
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:15,120
days if you don't work six

665
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:17,520
days it's not good you gotta work the

666
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:19,120
six days

667
00:25:22,390 --> 00:25:20,400
and you're not working eight you're

668
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:22,400
working ten eleven twelve hour shifts

669
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:24,000
i used to talk to some industrial

670
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:25,200
engineers you know the guys kind of

671
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:27,679
manage the machines

672
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:31,039
you could feel that just like oh man

673
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,240
six days 12 hours it was rough

674
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:36,480
these were engineers we're not talking

675
00:25:42,870 --> 00:25:39,200
about the got you know the people

676
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:42,880
you know lower so

677
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:45,600
well that that kind of uh leads to

678
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,360
another topic that you

679
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:49,440
address in in the film and in all your

680
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:50,559
work

681
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:54,840
and i love your quote from

682
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:58,080
uh ann bernays

683
00:26:01,350 --> 00:26:00,000
who is the daughter right right right

684
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:01,360
the daughter of that was the daughter

685
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:02,080
yeah

686
00:26:08,470 --> 00:26:05,520
that's a great quote enlighten

687
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:08,480
enlightened despotism tell us tell us

688
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:11,120
about that

689
00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:13,760
so we all know who bernays was right

690
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,080
he's the nephew i think of sigmund freud

691
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:18,240
either that or he's related by

692
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:20,240
marriage but he's the one who takes

693
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:21,279
sigmund freud

694
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:23,360
and says hey you got some kind of

695
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:25,200
interesting ideas there but

696
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:27,840
uh you you haven't begun to think about

697
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:30,080
how to operationalize these how to

698
00:26:33,909 --> 00:26:31,760
productize these right that's

699
00:26:35,590 --> 00:26:33,919
where he's got a little of you and i in

700
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:35,600
this he's like wow i can make a little

701
00:26:42,070 --> 00:26:38,400
money off

702
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:42,080
he got women smoking you know

703
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:44,000
to get women to smoke in the masons day

704
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,520
parade he got those seven women out

705
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:47,120
there smoking showing the power of

706
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:48,240
cigarettes to get

707
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:49,840
women because women used to not smoke in

708
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:52,000
public it was it was frowned upon

709
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:54,240
so he twisted he changed that social

710
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:56,240
norm to get women to smoke

711
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:59,440
bernays brought what bernays the genius

712
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:01,279
of bernays is this

713
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:04,320
bernays understood that you can

714
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:07,919
create desires then fulfill them

715
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:11,360
before people had needs and and we

716
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:13,279
fulfilled their needs

717
00:27:18,789 --> 00:27:16,640
but bernays understood you can develop

718
00:27:21,669 --> 00:27:18,799
you can create that desire

719
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:21,679
and then fulfill it that's what i did as

720
00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:23,120
an internet marketer

721
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:25,360
i would show you a picture of a guy with

722
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,159
a hot girl

723
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,799
in a car and say hey man you want to

724
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:30,480
learn how to trade options

725
00:27:34,149 --> 00:27:32,559
i'll show you a couple grand weekend

726
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:34,159
come on man you know

727
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:37,440
and i knew i alex i had the numbers down

728
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:38,880
on that excel sheet you know

729
00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:40,880
so many so many millions of impressions

730
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:42,880
so many clicks so many registrations

731
00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:45,520
i'm gonna get i'm gonna go fishing and

732
00:27:47,669 --> 00:27:46,240
i'll get

733
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:47,679
and that's what edward bernice did i

734
00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:49,440
created that desire

735
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:51,840
put the picture out so many would react

736
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:53,120
get them to buy

737
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:56,559
and make some money let's play

738
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:58,799
that let's play that oh you bring a bad

739
00:28:01,669 --> 00:28:00,640
boy don't say that

740
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:01,679
we're going to talk about that in a

741
00:28:06,149 --> 00:28:03,840
minute we're going to let anne talk

742
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:06,159
about that hold on

743
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:10,080
he called it the engineering of consent

744
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:13,039
democracy to my father was a wonderful

745
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,240
concept

746
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:16,480
but i don't think he felt that all those

747
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:17,840
publics out there

748
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:21,360
would had reliable judgment uh

749
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:23,840
and that that they could that they very

750
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:25,120
easily might

751
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:27,679
vote for the wrong man or want the wrong

752
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:28,640
thing

753
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:31,840
so that they had to be guided from above

754
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:35,279
uh it's enlightened despotism

755
00:28:41,269 --> 00:28:39,120
in a sense that is fantastic

756
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:41,279
i gotta give a shout out to uh adam

757
00:28:44,470 --> 00:28:42,880
curtis the nicest thing

758
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:44,480
anyone said about twilight of the

759
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:47,760
archons for me some guy on reddit said

760
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:50,080
it looks like a low-budget adam curtis

761
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,440
film i was like yes

762
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:53,120
that's what i wanted to hear that's what

763
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:58,320
it is it's low budget adam curtis

764
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,919
so again you might have mentioned i'm a

765
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:01,360
big fan of the century

766
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:04,399
century of the self if if anyone

767
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:07,360
doesn't remember that yeah and you gotta

768
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:09,440
go watch it in several parts

769
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:12,960
you know kind of turning this back to

770
00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:15,679
the film where you say hey don't be so

771
00:29:17,909 --> 00:29:17,440
quick to just think you know we're just

772
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:17,919
gonna

773
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:21,120
you know rip all this stuff down because

774
00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:22,799
we don't know it's it's easier to

775
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,919
destroy social structures than it is too

776
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:26,960
absolutely

777
00:29:30,549 --> 00:29:28,320
can i play that clip and then we'll talk

778
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,559
about it sure

779
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:32,720
we have explored their methods and false

780
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:35,200
myths but in order to defeat them

781
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:42,149
know your enemy he knows you so is the

782
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:43,760
answer revolution

783
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:45,520
should we take to the streets and throw

784
00:29:50,070 --> 00:29:47,440
the rascals out

785
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:50,080
who would we replace them with could it

786
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,159
really be that easy

787
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:56,399
unfortunately reality is more

788
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:58,480
complicated than comic book characters

789
00:30:02,070 --> 00:30:00,159
would have us believe

790
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:02,080
and we shouldn't forget that it takes

791
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:04,240
much more energy to create a social

792
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:04,799
order

793
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:08,000
than to destroy one so robert speak

794
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:10,559
to that for a second because again that

795
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:11,279
is the

796
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:14,000
the what i loved about the film is

797
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:15,440
another example of this

798
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:18,880
subtle tension that you're developing

799
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:21,440
because you're taking us down one path

800
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:22,000
and then you're

801
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:25,440
hitting us with the cold reality that

802
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:27,360
are you naive enough to think that just

803
00:30:31,269 --> 00:30:28,640
a simple revolution

804
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,279
is what you seek what's that saying if

805
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:33,200
you're not a socialist by the time

806
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:35,039
you're 20 you don't have a heart

807
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:36,960
if you're not a conservative by the time

808
00:30:43,029 --> 00:30:39,440
you're 40 you don't have a brain

809
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:43,039
um order social order what's it the

810
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:45,039
second law of thermodynamics entropy

811
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:48,080
to create a social order the complexity

812
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:50,080
of our society you're going to destroy

813
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:52,159
that and what are you going to

814
00:30:56,789 --> 00:30:55,120
there's a 99.9 chance what comes after

815
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:56,799
is going to be a total disaster

816
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,880
what are you going to do no no no just

817
00:31:01,909 --> 00:31:00,000
relax

818
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:01,919
because the ai is going to go where it

819
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:03,039
has to go

820
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:04,320
the economy is going to go where it has

821
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:05,919
to go history is going to go where it

822
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:06,799
has to go

823
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:09,039
you know it's it's about us it's not

824
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:10,399
about it

825
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:13,120
i really believe that this is the next

826
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,679
level

827
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,600
[\h__\h] robert that i rarely hear you talk

828
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:17,600
about so it's a real treat

829
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:20,720
i totally totally agree with you

830
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:23,360
the chaotic nature of the

831
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:25,519
entrepreneurial spirit and how it

832
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:26,480
manifests

833
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:30,080
in the united states is hard to recreate

834
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:33,279
and it's fundamentally essential to

835
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:36,640
how and why we've gotten this far

836
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:39,600
what we know to be the alternatives

837
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:40,320
there

838
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:42,720
and how those get played out and we

839
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:44,640
should be careful with

840
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:47,760
the unintended consequences of both

841
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:49,360
the undertone the unintended

842
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:50,960
consequences of uh

843
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:54,640
communism which is this kind of

844
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:57,600
complete virus of the mind that that is

845
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,080
just

846
00:32:01,190 --> 00:32:00,240
absurd to think that you would give up

847
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:01,200
all your rights

848
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:03,440
you would give up all your possessions

849
00:32:08,950 --> 00:32:05,760
in order to give them to

850
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:08,960
some non-entity state

851
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:11,440
that would then decide your life and you

852
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:12,799
should resist that with

853
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:15,679
every fiber of your being and the

854
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:17,760
messiness that comes with that that we

855
00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:19,279
call capitalism

856
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:22,640
will prevail over that because that is a

857
00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:23,760
fundamentally

858
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:26,880
flawed system that i think will

859
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:29,120
always collapse upon itself would you

860
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:31,440
have any thoughts on that

861
00:32:35,350 --> 00:32:34,399
oh yeah the communism i mean it just

862
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:35,360
doesn't work

863
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,080
crisis now

864
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:43,039
in capitalism especially in the west and

865
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:44,080
i would say

866
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:48,240
i agree with you more it's a false

867
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:51,120
crisis on the economic level on the

868
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:52,799
economic level

869
00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:56,159
people come live here and try and

870
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:57,440
i mean i don't want to tell you how much

871
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:59,279
money i make but it's pretty pretty

872
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:00,240
depressing

873
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:03,679
when you you know university professors

874
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:05,840
what you can do in the united states

875
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:07,200
today

876
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:09,600
if you you know have an idea and want to

877
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:10,720
get something done

878
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:14,159
is still exceptional it still is

879
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:17,200
so i think what we're having is it's

880
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:18,880
it's the cultural side of it

881
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:21,519
we're having a cultural breakdown but

882
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:23,120
i'm not so sure that

883
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,720
on an economic level things are as

884
00:33:30,149 --> 00:33:28,080
you know horrific as people think

885
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:30,159
they're

886
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:34,559
so so then let's get to the real stuff

887
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:37,440
which is when we do look beyond the

888
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:43,029
then we see how pitifully small of a

889
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:44,559
game we're playing

890
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,799
when we worry about any of that stuff

891
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:48,000
when we worry about

892
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,279
the materialistic

893
00:33:56,230 --> 00:33:52,960
even when we're railing against the

894
00:33:59,909 --> 00:33:56,240
materialism or we're railing against

895
00:34:02,630 --> 00:33:59,919
ex machinai and the culture shapers

896
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:02,640
because what you're really pointing to

897
00:34:07,830 --> 00:34:04,720
is something that truly

898
00:34:10,790 --> 00:34:07,840
transcends that what are we seeking

899
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,800
at that soul level that is beyond

900
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:12,159
materialism

901
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:15,440
and is portrayed in the film

902
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:17,280
it's it's something that's come to me as

903
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:19,119
i've gotten older if the key

904
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:21,119
to everything i mean if we could agree

905
00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:23,040
that being happiness is what we're all

906
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:23,919
looking for

907
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:26,079
i mean it's not that complicated you

908
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:27,919
know we just want to feel that sense of

909
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:29,919
peace and happiness

910
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:32,639
you don't get it out there it just

911
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:33,520
doesn't come

912
00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:36,240
out there you can have fun out there and

913
00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:37,520
i think people should go out and have

914
00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:39,040
fun out there

915
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:42,000
but in the end that thing that we're all

916
00:34:45,109 --> 00:34:43,440
and i think it's as simple as that that

917
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:45,119
thing we're all searching for

918
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:46,960
no matter in what it is if it's in

919
00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:48,399
material things and relationship

920
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:49,520
whatever it is

921
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:50,879
you can't get it out there and

922
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:53,280
eventually you've got to turn in

923
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:54,960
and that's the only place you can find

924
00:34:58,950 --> 00:34:56,399
it

925
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,960
that's been my experience i'm not i'm

926
00:35:01,990 --> 00:35:00,400
not saying that this is

927
00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:02,000
i'm just saying this has been my

928
00:35:06,710 --> 00:35:03,599
experience and i've seen it

929
00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:06,720
related in many traditions

930
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:10,079
um and like what you say about religion

931
00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:13,760
so true know that when i was growing up

932
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:15,680
i had certain very traditional say

933
00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:17,440
catholic beliefs and when campbell in

934
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:18,560
that interview said

935
00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:20,160
he made that moyer's interview he said

936
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,079
something very important moyers asked

937
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:23,760
him about a personal god

938
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:26,640
and he said you know of course not i

939
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:27,599
don't know what

940
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:31,680
you know but when you have to transcend

941
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:34,400
those ideas of you know i mean if there

942
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:36,560
was a time for me that if you said jesus

943
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:39,119
maybe didn't exist i would have you know

944
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:40,640
been scandalized

945
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:44,000
but now it doesn't really matter i don't

946
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:44,880
care

947
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,800
i can honestly say i mean what what

948
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:48,400
difference does it make

949
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:50,960
that's not where the truth is the truth

950
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:51,520
is

951
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:54,960
internally great so let's find

952
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:57,359
another clip i think that reinforces

953
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:59,119
that

954
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:01,359
realizing the world we experience is a

955
00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:02,240
reflection

956
00:36:06,069 --> 00:36:04,480
a perception in our mind is a key

957
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:06,079
insight

958
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:08,240
there is no world out there that we

959
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:10,320
experience

960
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:17,359
is reality the images and the sensations

961
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,720
we experience

962
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:20,880
or simply the awareness in which they

963
00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:23,040
arise

964
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:25,520
our culture insists that it is the

965
00:36:28,890 --> 00:36:27,280
objects themselves

966
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,900
but are we being deceived

967
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:30,880
[Music]

968
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,280
rise wake up seek the wise and realize

969
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:37,599
the path is difficult to cross like the

970
00:36:43,510 --> 00:36:39,599
sharpened edge of a razor

971
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:46,630
and i have a firm belief in this now not

972
00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:47,920
only in terms of

973
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:50,320
my own experience but in knowing about

974
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,040
the experiences of other people

975
00:36:56,470 --> 00:36:55,440
when you follow your bliss and i'm by

976
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:56,480
bliss i mean the

977
00:37:00,630 --> 00:37:00,000
deep sense of being in it and doing what

978
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:00,640
the push

979
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:03,839
is out of your own existence you

980
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:06,240
follow that and doors will open where

981
00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:07,119
there would

982
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:08,240
you would not have thought there were

983
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:09,839
going to be doors and where there

984
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:11,839
wouldn't be a door for anybody else

985
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:13,119
and there's something about the

986
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:15,280
integrity of a life and

987
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:18,160
the world moves in and and helped great

988
00:37:20,790 --> 00:37:19,920
great stuff robert do you want to

989
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,800
comment on

990
00:37:24,069 --> 00:37:22,800
any of that and that last piece i'll

991
00:37:25,430 --> 00:37:24,079
edit that down a little bit because it

992
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:25,440
went on a little bit too long but i

993
00:37:28,870 --> 00:37:27,520
can't stop i like i want to keep playing

994
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:28,880
more and more

995
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:31,119
joseph campbell at the end is the bliss

996
00:37:35,190 --> 00:37:31,920
quote but

997
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,200
comment on the on the whole

998
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:37,520
the the journey you take us on yeah it's

999
00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:38,640
really important

1000
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:40,640
we only know our perceptions but we

1001
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:42,720
never interact with this material world

1002
00:37:45,510 --> 00:37:43,839
we don't

1003
00:37:46,870 --> 00:37:45,520
and then if you follow philosophy you go

1004
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,880
to kant and then you go through hagel

1005
00:37:51,109 --> 00:37:48,240
and all these people

1006
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:51,119
and what does science do science this is

1007
00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:51,839
important

1008
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:58,790
and manipulates perceptions through

1009
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:01,680
technology but the actual material world

1010
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:03,280
what is it

1011
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:08,000
we don't know the only thing we know is

1012
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:11,920
our awareness and those pers

1013
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:13,599
in the field within which all of these

1014
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:15,200
perceptions arise that's

1015
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:18,320
all we know you know donald hoffman i

1016
00:38:23,109 --> 00:38:19,680
think

1017
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:23,119
really nails this

1018
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:27,119
when he really goes into exactly what

1019
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:29,359
our what is our experience and our

1020
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:32,640
experience is only that awareness

1021
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,040
like planck says you can't get behind it

1022
00:38:39,589 --> 00:38:37,440
and you can't get in front of it

1023
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:39,599
so that's all we're right there that's

1024
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:41,040
all we have

1025
00:38:44,069 --> 00:38:43,280
and when you bring that down when you

1026
00:38:48,790 --> 00:38:44,079
think about

1027
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,790
do they really hold up and

1028
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:54,880
i don't know i'm not a physicist but i

1029
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:56,800
do know what i know and i know is

1030
00:39:00,550 --> 00:38:58,400
my experience and my experience is

1031
00:39:02,310 --> 00:39:00,560
simply this perception and if we

1032
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:02,320
if you drill it down to what you know

1033
00:39:07,670 --> 00:39:05,680
and you you get rid of the stories

1034
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:07,680
like i say in the film the story of

1035
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:09,760
money

1036
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:14,400
people perceive it as are very different

1037
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:16,560
and the same as our experience with the

1038
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:18,240
material world

1039
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,520
when you drill down you know what do we

1040
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:23,760
have we only have that experience of the

1041
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:26,720
here and now that's all we have

1042
00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:29,359
everything occurs there and so if you go

1043
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:30,640
there

1044
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:34,160
to think that you know you can find that

1045
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:37,680
bliss there not yesterday not tomorrow

1046
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:39,200
you can find it there

1047
00:39:43,589 --> 00:39:41,040
robert tell us a little bit about your

1048
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:43,599
personal spiritual

1049
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:46,960
life and practices how do you

1050
00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:48,240
how do you bring that down to a

1051
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:50,480
practical level what do you believe in

1052
00:39:57,349 --> 00:39:56,069
yeah because i spent a long time in sort

1053
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:57,359
of the at western

1054
00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:58,320
i'm not going to go through the whole

1055
00:40:01,430 --> 00:39:59,839
trajectory but a lot of time in the

1056
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:01,440
western esoteric tradition a lot of

1057
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:03,760
times a lot of time in gnosticism

1058
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:08,000
and i found one problem one problem

1059
00:40:14,069 --> 00:40:10,880
it's fascinating but it doesn't get you

1060
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:15,829
do you know what i mean like you can

1061
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:19,359
really it's very interesting

1062
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:22,560
but there seems to be that sort of that

1063
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:23,119
last

1064
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:25,920
leap is a little bit difficult and then

1065
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:27,280
i got into

1066
00:40:34,470 --> 00:40:30,640
inviting non-dualism uh you know

1067
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:34,480
ramana maharshi nisargadatta

1068
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:36,319
this whole thing in the modern in the

1069
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:38,480
modern i guess uh opponents with this

1070
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:40,560
would be someone like rupert spyra or

1071
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:43,680
francis seal these type of people and

1072
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:47,920
getting into that it it had i mean

1073
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:50,480
anyone who's into that non-dual thing is

1074
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:52,319
going to see it in the film very clearly

1075
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:54,319
it's obvious for those people who are

1076
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:56,160
there but yeah i would say that's where

1077
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,640
i am

1078
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,520
now pretty serious into that and it

1079
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:00,800
seems like

1080
00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:04,640
it's working for me and i didn't set out

1081
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:06,480
to make the film this way

1082
00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:08,880
i really did i promise you i didn't but

1083
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:09,760
it just kind of

1084
00:41:13,349 --> 00:41:11,920
evolved this way and then i got to the

1085
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:13,359
end

1086
00:41:17,829 --> 00:41:14,880
it is i just want to tell one kind of

1087
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:17,839
interesting story when i understood what

1088
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:20,560
campbell was saying that campbell's

1089
00:41:24,309 --> 00:41:21,359
basically

1090
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:24,319
a proponent of advice completely if you

1091
00:41:29,829 --> 00:41:26,800
look into his past he's completely

1092
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:29,839
and you i understood about bliss bliss

1093
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:31,520
is really love

1094
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:34,400
then i said that's it because i don't

1095
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:35,599
know if you noticed

1096
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,520
but the the end is one corinthians

1097
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:41,440
about love that's one corinthians in

1098
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:42,720
greek and i was like

1099
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:45,839
that's it and for you fans of kieslowski

1100
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:46,720
out there i

1101
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:50,480
changed the timing to get

1102
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:53,680
love hopes all right when

1103
00:41:57,430 --> 00:41:56,319
juliet's smile comes on so i switched it

1104
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:57,440
on keys let's get a little bit i moved

1105
00:42:01,430 --> 00:41:58,560
it up a little bit so

1106
00:42:02,309 --> 00:42:01,440
sorry please though but that was the

1107
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:02,319
idea

1108
00:42:06,230 --> 00:42:04,880
to bring it up to there and then sliding

1109
00:42:07,750 --> 00:42:06,240
corinthians

1110
00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:07,760
i thought that was kind of a nice little

1111
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:09,680
move and then you

1112
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:11,760
end with the very excellent natalie

1113
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:13,359
merchant and

1114
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:15,280
i thought that was that was a great

1115
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:17,200
great connection in a way

1116
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:19,440
tell folks this is maybe inside

1117
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:20,640
spiritual

1118
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:23,920
religious if you will baseball

1119
00:42:27,910 --> 00:42:26,480
how do you understand at a super high

1120
00:42:31,510 --> 00:42:27,920
level the difference between

1121
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:31,520
gnosticism and the non-dual stuff

1122
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:32,960
and then i'll kind of offer my

1123
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:40,710
oh i think fundamentally

1124
00:42:47,349 --> 00:42:44,240
it's very similar because

1125
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:47,359
gnosticism means gnosis it's

1126
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:50,480
the experience of the divine

1127
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:53,520
the actual experience it's not

1128
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:57,040
about beliefs there's there's a

1129
00:43:02,550 --> 00:42:59,280
cosmology in a mythology

1130
00:43:04,470 --> 00:43:02,560
but understood correctly it's about an

1131
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:04,480
experience of that that divine

1132
00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:05,280
experience

1133
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:10,560
anything more speaking anything more

1134
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:11,599
about it

1135
00:43:15,270 --> 00:43:14,079
is [\h__\h] when you've had the

1136
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:15,280
experience

1137
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:18,079
you know it there were ways to get you

1138
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:19,359
over the top

1139
00:43:22,870 --> 00:43:21,040
but a lot of those were lost a lot of

1140
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:22,880
those traditions were lost

1141
00:43:26,390 --> 00:43:25,280
but in the non-dual tradition they to

1142
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:26,400
tradition

1143
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,920
they've kept it alive pretty clearly

1144
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,359
you know they've they've said you know

1145
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,280
to get from here to there

1146
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:35,599
there are certain methods and depending

1147
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:37,440
on your personality type what's better

1148
00:43:40,630 --> 00:43:39,280
for this person that person it's pretty

1149
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:40,640
clear

1150
00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:43,119
um if you brought it to a christian

1151
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,000
level

1152
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:46,319
i would say it has a lot to do with the

1153
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:47,680
cross

1154
00:43:53,109 --> 00:43:51,200
the vertical is the eternal

1155
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:53,119
and the horizontal part of the cross

1156
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:54,800
that's what comes and goes

1157
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:58,079
that would be my for example so where

1158
00:44:01,990 --> 00:43:58,800
you want to be

1159
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:02,000
between where they where they meet

1160
00:44:05,589 --> 00:44:03,599
right that's where you want to be and

1161
00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:05,599
that where was christ he was right there

1162
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:07,599
right right in the center of that cross

1163
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,160
when you think about it that way

1164
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:12,960
between the infinite and what comes and

1165
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:14,319
goes

1166
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:15,760
you can kind of make the connection

1167
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:17,359
there but yeah go down i'd like to hear

1168
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:18,640
i'd love to hear your uh

1169
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:22,800
you're taking them my take is

1170
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:28,400
gnosticism is about damn the archons

1171
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:32,800
and non-dual thinking

1172
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:36,000
is world what world and

1173
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,040
yeah to me it's more direct

1174
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:41,440
the non-dual approach is more direct and

1175
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:42,400
i particularly like

1176
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,599
where people in the west our non-dual

1177
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:47,520
dharma brothers in the west have taken

1178
00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:49,920
it i really think they've taken it

1179
00:44:53,670 --> 00:44:50,960
further than

1180
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:53,680
the eastern tradition did the thing that

1181
00:44:56,710 --> 00:44:54,800
always

1182
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:56,720
i pull up a little bit short on the

1183
00:45:03,670 --> 00:44:59,359
gnosticism is they see this battle

1184
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:03,680
you see this big war and it's like

1185
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:06,720
what how can there if you if you truly

1186
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:08,319
are transcending how do you see this as

1187
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:09,280
any war

1188
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:12,160
and and how could you see good and evil

1189
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:13,440
as some kind of war

1190
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:16,880
it's all good it can't be otherwise

1191
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:20,880
it's non-dual there's no dual you know

1192
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:23,599
and i think you captured that

1193
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:24,960
beautifully in the film

1194
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:28,079
battle is inside you if you choose

1195
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:30,960
you we are our own archive i'll give you

1196
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:33,760
an example i have a lot of beliefs

1197
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:36,319
that are absolute nonsense absolutely

1198
00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:37,200
nonsense

1199
00:45:41,190 --> 00:45:39,680
i believe a lot of stupid things like

1200
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:41,200
for example imagine you know the keys

1201
00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:42,720
are on the kitchen table and i check

1202
00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:44,319
five times and they're not there

1203
00:45:47,750 --> 00:45:45,680
i have a lot of beliefs like that in my

1204
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:47,760
life but to get rid of those beliefs

1205
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:50,960
oh my god and that's

1206
00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:53,359
a little bit the demiurge he's holding

1207
00:45:57,510 --> 00:45:54,160
on

1208
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:57,520
he's like yeah it does

1209
00:46:00,550 --> 00:46:00,240
and i'm all for joseph campbell and you

1210
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,560
like

1211
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:02,400
stories and myths and we all do to a

1212
00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:03,680
certain extent

1213
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:06,240
i like uh to me there's something more

1214
00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:06,800
direct

1215
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:08,880
about the nondual and you know even

1216
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,800
though i said i love my western

1217
00:46:13,990 --> 00:46:13,200
non-dual teachers hey the people from

1218
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:14,000
the east know some

1219
00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:17,200
[\h__\h] too and uh amma the hugging saint i

1220
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:17,839
always

1221
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:19,599
have this kind of quote of this

1222
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:21,200
wonderful experience she's

1223
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:24,319
one of her followers have when i'm

1224
00:46:28,150 --> 00:46:26,160
not at all down with followers we don't

1225
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:28,160
need to follow anyone we don't we can

1226
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:30,480
disintermediate and go but anyways

1227
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:33,520
amma is giving is giving these

1228
00:46:37,990 --> 00:46:35,839
incredible facilitating these incredible

1229
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:38,000
awakenings by people just by hugging

1230
00:46:40,950 --> 00:46:38,480
them

1231
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:40,960
and she hugs anyone and thousands of

1232
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:43,040
people line up to just get one of her

1233
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:45,119
hugs that's what she does

1234
00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:47,839
but then she also works tirelessly

1235
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:49,599
digging these latrines in

1236
00:46:52,950 --> 00:46:52,160
india with the untouchables and is just

1237
00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:52,960
like

1238
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:56,160
imagine a mother teresa and

1239
00:47:03,030 --> 00:46:59,839
one of her followers goes up and says um

1240
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:03,040
how can you do this i mean you say we're

1241
00:47:07,829 --> 00:47:04,960
not of this world and yet

1242
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:07,839
all your time and energy is put into

1243
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:09,440
this world

1244
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:19,270
that is non-dual that is i do

1245
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:22,880
i do this is jesus right i'm

1246
00:47:26,309 --> 00:47:24,640
in this world but not of this world you

1247
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:26,319
know that

1248
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:29,760
living that is is

1249
00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:31,599
just strikes me as a little bit

1250
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:34,160
different than gnosticism and i love

1251
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:37,040
gnostic vibe and i love the films and

1252
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:38,000
stuff like that but

1253
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:39,920
just we're just sharing you know kind of

1254
00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:41,359
our perspectives

1255
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:44,640
and and i agree that for me

1256
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:47,920
when i found the non-dual path

1257
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:50,000
i took a deep breath and i was like i

1258
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:51,359
think this is it

1259
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,960
you know i think we're on the final

1260
00:47:57,030 --> 00:47:54,720
approach here you know what i mean

1261
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,040
there's a sense of it grabs you

1262
00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:59,520
and it doesn't let go because i love

1263
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:00,400
gnosticism

1264
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:03,280
but i never knew how to crack the code

1265
00:48:07,349 --> 00:48:05,280
like i want to crack the code man

1266
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:07,359
i mean this is cool but cool is not

1267
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:08,640
enough

1268
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:11,200
the non-dual stuff it gives you says all

1269
00:48:14,710 --> 00:48:12,240
right son

1270
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:14,720
you know let's go it's it's very

1271
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:16,480
powerful but you have to be ready

1272
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:18,240
i don't think it's for everyone you know

1273
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:20,559
you got to be you got to be kind of set

1274
00:48:22,549 --> 00:48:21,440
you got to have to

1275
00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:22,559
you know you got to pay your dues a

1276
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:24,720
little bit beforehand

1277
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:27,839
one of my great non-dual teachers has a

1278
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:30,160
great way to start for anybody

1279
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:33,280
don't complain about the weather

1280
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:36,400
don't complain about the [\h__\h] weather

1281
00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:38,319
it's the most non-dual you can get

1282
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:39,839
that's the essence of it

1283
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,200
you think you're the center of the

1284
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:43,359
[\h__\h] universe you think you're the

1285
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:44,240
center of

1286
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:46,160
the continent of africa that the weather

1287
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:47,280
should

1288
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:49,280
you're crazy you left the keys on the

1289
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:51,040
counter five times you checked

1290
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:54,400
what are you doing stop it right now

1291
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:57,760
just stop complaining about the weather

1292
00:49:02,470 --> 00:48:58,319
okay

1293
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:02,480
enough robert it's been fantastic

1294
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:05,599
tell us tell us where you're going with

1295
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,839
the film twilight of the archons anyone

1296
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:09,520
can go watch it on youtube and should

1297
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:10,800
watch it on youtube

1298
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:13,119
tell us what other things you're working

1299
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,119
in how you're getting the word out

1300
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:17,680
what's in the hand the pay looks like a

1301
00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:19,680
peyote button or something in the hand

1302
00:49:25,589 --> 00:49:20,800
of this uh

1303
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:25,599
cactus land logo that you have

1304
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:28,319
that's the old hunter thompson logo you

1305
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:30,559
know the gonzo logo

1306
00:49:34,549 --> 00:49:32,720
yeah i mean that's i took that's from

1307
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:34,559
hunter thompson in cactus land of course

1308
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:36,079
comes from ts eliot

1309
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:37,680
and so it's kind of a you know a

1310
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:39,359
mishmash of that but i kind of created

1311
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:40,079
the brand

1312
00:49:43,589 --> 00:49:41,920
and i just want to say and this is

1313
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:43,599
shameless self-promotion

1314
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:45,839
the film is completely free and i don't

1315
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:47,839
want money you know i have a day job i

1316
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:49,440
pay the rent i don't need money

1317
00:49:53,109 --> 00:49:52,079
but please promote the film because i

1318
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:53,119
think it's important

1319
00:49:56,230 --> 00:49:54,559
it's not maybe it's not one of these

1320
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:56,240
things gonna get you know but

1321
00:50:02,470 --> 00:50:00,000
it's a kind of message if you get it

1322
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:02,480
i think it's important so if folks if

1323
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:04,480
you like the film i'd really appreciate

1324
00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:05,599
just a couple

1325
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:08,160
posts on facebook on reddit you know

1326
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:09,599
just a little bit

1327
00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:11,520
if you feel like you like it just

1328
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:12,880
promote it a little bit because i think

1329
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,760
it's a it's

1330
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:15,599
there's something worthwhile about this

1331
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:17,440
film

1332
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:21,040
absolutely absolutely true our guest

1333
00:50:26,069 --> 00:50:24,000
has been oh so excellent now you know

1334
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:26,079
why he's my dharma brother

1335
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:28,800
robert bonomo thanks so much we'll

1336
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,480
definitely have to do this

1337
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:32,240
again i know you you'll be cranking out

1338
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:34,400
another one of these in a couple years

1339
00:50:39,910 --> 00:50:38,079
couple years yeah maybe but terrific

1340
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:39,920
having you on robert congratulations on

1341
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:41,760
this great job

1342
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:43,599
thank you very much we appreciate it

1343
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:44,880
thanks again to robert

1344
00:50:49,430 --> 00:50:47,280
for joining me today on skeptico one

1345
00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:49,440
question i t up from this interview

1346
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:51,200
kind of an offbeat one but it's the one

1347
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:52,559
we wound up on so

1348
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,480
let's see how deep down this kind of

1349
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,040
wacky rabbit hole you want to go

1350
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:59,760
how do you understand process the

1351
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:01,520
differences between

1352
00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:04,960
the gnosticism stuff and the non-dual

1353
00:51:08,069 --> 00:51:07,599
stuff love to hear a conversation on

1354
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:08,079
that

1355
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:10,000
join me over on the skeptico forum if

1356
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:11,280
you want to chat

1357
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:14,640
about it please stick around for

1358
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:16,400
future shows i got a bunch of them

1359
00:51:22,270 --> 00:51:18,880
coming up until next time